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14 Comments 7D OR 5D: AN IRRATIONAL DECISION.

Article written by Skidblog on the 22 Jul 2010 in Canon 7D filmmaking,General

7d or 5d?

7d or 5d?

I’ve been getting this a lot recently: ‘Bollocks I’ve bought a 7D, I wish I’d bought a 5D, but it was too expensive and now it’s bothering me because I know the 5D has to be better doesn’t it, but I shoot mainly video so what do I do, what do I do?’

Damn good question. Many people, most eloquently Philip Bloom have tried to rationalise the decision for you in their own way and at least give you a shot of making a decision you’re happy with. I’ve been fortunate to spend a really intense period working with both cameras over the last six months, pouring over the image, analysing how different lenses affect the image, being incredibly self-critical to that end and I now feel qualified to lob my ten cents worth into the mix. Definitely worth reading Bloom’s article about the different cameras because he lays out the technical differences and makes it abundantly clear exactly what you’re getting with the different units.

I won’t be doing that. I’ve nicked his frame size comparison because it gives you a very quick idea of why various cameras perform better.

You’ve probably all seen this comparison a hundred times already but it never gets boring. To imagine I used to be content as a kitten with the 1/2 inch chip in an EX1 (I remember being staggered by how good it looked) is it any wonder that an APS-C sensor can be as beguiling as it is. Bring in the full frame sensor of the 5D or the D3S and suddenly you’re looking at just an absurd leap in the amount of information it’s sucking in.

I bought a 7D, I bought it because it was cheaper, it seemed better set up for video, which was my primary usage and it just seemed the right choice at the time. I had no idea what I was getting myself into, I had a budget for a camera and before I knew it I’d spent four times what I’d budgeted for. Oops. I’ve shot on nothing but the 5D for the last three months, and I now have a conclusion to offer. This is not based on tech specs, or comparison charts, or financial considerations, it’s based purely on an emotional response. The 7D is fantastic and I will never regret purchasing it. I enjoy how rugged it is and, coupled with my Sigma 30mm f1.4 it’s absolute dynamite. There was a short period when I was shooting with the Marvels Cine profile doing backgammon and my short dance film when I shocked myself with how pretty it was. But that’s where it ends, an infatuation. No more than that.

I am completely in love with the 5D. Like I said, it is completely irrational and based on emotion, but that’s just the way it is.

Sony F35

For me, the 5D has the edge over the 7D but it really boils down to personal taste, I just love the way it looks, how involving it is, but given its place in the range you’d expect that. As an editor and post person I’m used to analysing my video footage in great detail and while I watch my 7D rushes and enjoy them I watch my rushes from the 5D and I giggle. It’s pathetic. I literally giggle and coo at how phenomenal it looks. I blow them up to the full size of my crappy Asus 26 inch monitors and they hold up. I shoot stills on my 7D and they’re very decent indeed. I shoot stills on the 5D and they’re just staggering. My much-maligned 24-70L that doesn’t really seem to work as well as you’d hope on the 7D (especially for video), just seems to be so much more in tune with the sensor and the electronics on the 5D. I’m not a techie and couldn’t give you a specific reason why this is. In Filmmaker Magazine this month Roberto Quezada-Dardon writes an overview of the DSLR landscape with anecdotes from DOP Brian Reynolds stating that the 7D cuts seamlessly with the Sony F35. I’m shocked by that. Genuinely. Much of my 7D footage exhibits very obvious tell-tale blockiness from the H264 codec, blockiness I just don’t see from the 5D. But if Reynolds says so, then who am I to argue?

So, what does this mean? Well, it means this: if you’re dipping a toe get the 550D. Now that’s a ridiculous camera for the price and I really like it. Yes it’s a bit plasticky and a bit of a fiddle to operate, but you’d get used to that in a day or two. If you have the money (well if you don’t then steal it) then do yourself a massive favour and get that 5D… at all costs… just get it. It will change your life. But what about the 720 50i on the 7D. I don’t bother with that on Ladies and Gentlemen anymore, I just trust Twixtor to give me a lifelike 50fps on my full frame 1920×1080 5D footage and most of the time it does. For sure, rent a 7D and get hold of some PL mount lenses like the new Zeiss CP2s or even better Cook S4s and you’ll probably have the time of your life but think really hard about what you’re after. Yes, we suffer from that insane shallow depth of field making focus a real challenge, but the image is just much better on the 5D. Also bear in mind that I’m just a punter and I like shooting drama so for me the 5D stacks up really well. For more doco style work then I actually think the 7D is a better bet, you’ll certainly have a better shot at focussing and you’ll create more immediacy. Horses for courses as always but the 5D sits above the 7D in the range and if you were wondering what your extra money bought you I can tell you that, for me, it represents good value. In fact they all do, ridiculous isn’t it?

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July 22, 2010 5:32 PM Gigsy Website Reply

Interesting stuff as per. I’m just in the market for another 7d as it happens, have loved what it’s offered me in the last few months, mostly in the form of the filmy dof and the amazing low light. Ive got an EX3 and a 1, so am thinking of firstly dumping the 3 for another 7d. Now I don’t know, maybe a 5d2????? Plus I reckon it’s much more sellable in the future to wedding photographers!

2010-07-22 17:37:49 Skidblog Website

Rent one out for a day and have a play. You'll love it!

July 22, 2010 6:10 PM Alan Campbell Website Reply

Really interesting mate I got my 550D after you recommended it and I do really love it everything i’ve shot on it so far has looked a million times better than previous projects. Getting a 5D is something I will do as soon as work with the 550D can pay for it and fingers crossed by then the mk3 will be out and have improved on things like monitoring problems

2010-07-23 01:37:10 Skidblog Website

Good news. Keep shooting on that 550D as I know it's the absolute smartest DSLR choice right now, but no-one really seems to be giving it much of a big up.

July 22, 2010 9:56 PM John Website Reply

I bought a 550D for the simple fact I knew absolutely nothing about DSLRs. I did think about the GH1 but decided to go Canon so one day I can change the body to something better and not need a whole new set of lenses.

As for Robin being in love with the 5DMK2………kind of like the worst kept secret on this blog!

And even with the new hacked firmware on the GH1 Philip Bloom won’t have a bad word said about his beloved 5D! So for now it does seem 5D is king, until there is a mark 3 or New 1D.

Something else to note is the second hand price of 5DMk2 vs 7D on ebay. I’ve seen both go for around the same money £1400-1500ish, definitely makes the 5D a no brainer.

2010-07-22 21:59:47 John Website

Forgot to ask, 480 output on the 5D? Its not a pain in the arse over 7D's 1080?

2010-07-23 01:38:01 Skidblog Website

I got my 7D for £1250 so still better value but there's going to be a stack of secondhand 5D Mk2's around for sure.

July 27, 2010 3:07 PM Paul Website Reply

Have you shot like for like? And by that i mean same effective aperture on each in the same setup?

I imagine that the 5D offers a shallower DOF – 2.8 on a 5D is very different to 2.8 on a 7D. When that is compressed the out of focus areas compress very well and therefore there are more ‘bits’ left for the detail. So better ‘subjective’ compression when the DOF is shallower.

The colour seems very similar although the 5D has ‘bigger’ pixels, the 7D has more technically advanced pixels (different sensor generation)

I suspect this is all about DOF, because on either camera once you stop down you see the line skipping problems.

I personally picked up a 550D which is great fun, i’m waiting for the next generation that fixes line doubling. I see that as a major Achilles heal in day to day production.

I like the APS-C sensor because is closely mimics 35mm film and that’s the type of DOF i want to emulate.

Great work on your pilot though. Good job. We’ve been there before too, so i know exactly what you’re going through!

cheers
paul

2010-07-31 17:12:15 Skidblog Website

Hi Paul, I actually haven't done a like for like comparison and probably never will. I have tried all the same lenses on both cameras though and I trust my eyes and the desperately unforgiving image that comes from my huge computer screens. The 5D's sensor is not just bigger than the 7D's it's way way bigger and that just means a more faithful, more aesthetically pleasing image. I don't see that irritating blockiness (not the line skipping, the blockiness of the codec artefacts) and there's something so beguiling about the image. The 7D does pack in the pixels more tightly but I can only go on my own preferences and I just love the 5D and don't love the 7D. We blow up our stills to really understand the difference between good and very good lenses, and I do the same with the video from these two cameras and the 5D holds up where the 7D doesn't. That swings it for me. If you want a more detailed comparison then it's definitely worth checking out the Zacuto shootout which did a very thorough job. On latitude and pretty much every other test the 5D kicked ass (not the low light test though, where the D3S did best). If it's the right choice for Rodney Charters then it's okay with me!

The 550D is dynamite. For the money it's just an unbelievable camera. I can't recommend it highly enough. I've always got my 7D in my back pocket, we can stop the 5D down to get the DOF we want and we have been shooting 2.8 and rarely lower unless the light conditions demand it. The search continues and hopefully the next generation will be something to get really excited about.

Good luck with it!

R

August 4, 2010 2:36 AM Noel Website Reply

Everytime Iv seen 7d footage I always think, Hmm, but the 5d never fails to get a wow out of me!

Hopefully my wait for the Mark iii wont be long. Dont want to be using the 550d for too long!

2010-08-05 08:28:06 Skidblog Website

5D Mk3. That's going to be a monster. I wouldn't hold your breath for a large sensor video camera just yet. Just a hunch.

August 23, 2010 1:39 AM Noel @Twitter ID Website Reply

Thank god I’v yet to buy 550d/7d. Spent camera money on Zeiss ZE lens. And I think from watching your L&G daileys a dozen times each, that I’ll be buying a 5d.

August 23, 2010 1:46 AM Robin Schmidt @Twitter ID Website Reply

`go to bed you mentalist! glad the dailies are keeping you entertained and inspired. think that’s my major goal with this whole thing, getting people shooting, regularly and often. Whichever camera you buy represents a solid investment in my book. Bloom’s all over lenses in this post
http://philipbloom.net/2010/08/20/which-lenses-to-buy/

and he’s absolutely right, but the 5D is a little bit more and that massive chip is just the business.

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